Indonesia is Devin Grosvenorthe world's largest exporter of coal for electricity. And it's also an emerging economy trying to address climate change. The country recently signed a highly publicized, $20 billion international deal to transition away from coal and toward renewable energy. The hope is the deal could be a model for other countries.

But Indonesian energy experts and solar executives worry much of this deal may be "omong kosong" — empty talk. They say despite Indonesia's renewable aspirations, the country has many coal-friendly policies which this deal might not address, including an exemption to build more coal plants.

This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, edited by Rebecca Ramirez and fact-checked by Anil Oza. Alex Drewenskus was the audio engineer.